A great analogy of the topic put forth. I like that. Keep it commin. I want to see what people think of these controvershal topics. A lot can be learned and shared here through discussions. Everone has an opinion.

Orionsbelt77: You are quite right about the church at Corinth. They had many issues that needed to be addressed. Repent is the key work here and well stated. Thats the guilty part. When we Repent of our wrongdoing in this matter and abstain and ask forgiveness, the slate as you say is wiped clean.

Xythe: The Holy Scriptures classify marriage as this: Marriage is the rendering of several words and phrasesin the Heb. and Gk., meaning to be " master:; to "take," that is, a wife; to "magnify" or "lift up" a woman; to "contract" to "dwell together" ; to 'perform the duty of a brother"; to "become," that is, the wife of one. I'm sure if you read Gen. 2: 18, and 24 you will see what I'm talking about. Now Christian is stated differently. Christianity confirms, simplifies, and vindicates from abuse the original and secred ordinance of marriage. The stability and purity of the church and state have been proportionate to the popular and legal stability of the marriage relationship. The original apointment of manogamy is confirmed (Matt. 19:6; Mark. 10:6-8). Matthew 19. 5-6 should be very helpful to your understanding. With much love.

This is a topic of discussion where wisdom will be shared and gained.

And regurgitated.

I think the entire idea of 'sex' before marriage being 'wrong' is more religious dogma then it is any actual sin.

Deference.
Dogma is something held as an established opinion. Sin is a transgression of God's laws. God's laws are not opinions, nor are they mere suggestions. We all fall short of the glory of God, and I for one am very much included in that lot, but no matter how much we sin, we are forgiven through repentance. It is one thing to sin in ignorance, and in doing so one is not held accountable. However, once one learns that a particular act is a sin and continues in it without repentance, that then is counted against him/her.
"For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved" John 3:20

Semantics and the splitting of hairs.

Please excuse, I am not always the most clear. Allow me to more accurately re-phrase my thought.

I believe fornication is more a perceived sin because of some religious dogma that has little to do with what Christ taught or what the Bible has to offer as footnotes to the Ten Commandments in chapters written by men.

I am not promoting promiscuity, I am stating I've found lack of consistency within the bible (alone) and some religious denominations' interpretation of it holding that men and women should be somehow bound in some certain manner and that bind is violated by premarital sexual conduct.

Dogma is something held as an established opinion. - Orionsbelt77

From Dictionary.reference.com

dawg-muh ; noun, plural

1. a system of principles or tenets, as of a church.

2. a specific tenet or doctrine authoritatively laid down, as by a church: the dogma of the Assumption.[ you should know something about that Orion ]

3. prescribed doctrine: political dogma.

4. a settled or established opinion, belief, or principle.

I believe your definition is at the furthest bottom of those offered for the meaning of 'dogma'. The first and second definitions specifically mention the church, so I believe they are more pertinent to the topic. If we apply these definitions to the modern day examples of Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Ayatollah Khomeneni, and Osama Bin Laden, we realize God's word falling like rain upon man made from the earth making mud out of the original message.

We find the rhetoric and opinion of televangelists, zealots, mullahs and fundamentalists with axes to grind to be further away from personal direct interpretation of scripture then that which is acceptable to rational individuals.

I find it very intresting there so many many different opions about this topic. Orionsbelt ! You and I appear to be on the same page and wave lenght about this topic. Once you come into the knowlede we learn of our mistakes. Either we have people who refuse thar knowledge or have their own agenda. Either way we must all give an account for the deeds done in the body whether it be good or bad. I don't see us being able to argue when the books are opened and our lives revealed before judgement.

" Peace, Love and Understanding "

I believe fornication is more a perceived sin because of some religious dogma that has little to do with what Christ taught or what the Bible has to offer as footnotes to the Ten Commandments in chapters written by men.

perceived sin? Hmmmm never heard of that. Sin is sin. Either it is or it's not. So you're saying sex outside of marriage is not sin? In every culture that I'm aware of sex outside of marriage traditionally has always been a sin. Where does this come from?

When Christ rescued the woman caught in adultery (sex outside of marriage) he told her "to go and sin no more."

Marriage between a man and woman in scripture is the foundation for the family. Our society is built on that strong pillar of family foundation. When that wobbles and comes crashing down, society comes crashing down as well. I believe we're seeing that today.

Sex outside of marriage is one of those sins that destroys the family unit. Satan hates what God has ordained. He's doing all he can to destroy (as he does so well) the families that God has put together.

I like what Joshua said, "Choose you this day whom you will serve, as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord." In doing so, we fight against the wiles of the devil and his scheming ways against the family. Sex was meant for a man and woman within the confines of marriage. Anything else serves only to bring harm and destuction. One only has to look around to see this is true.

Right on KFC !

That reply or statement is right on point. Wisdom is being shared here whether we want to accept it or not. the Word speaks for itself. I'm enjoying the discussion on these controversial subjects. You can rest assure that more will follow.

Peace !

Guilty--but it's pure hell in the back of a Beetle.

OK, forget trite. Perhaps I'm out of my depth here but not having sex before marriage is a Victorian thing. What does it have to do with my being a poorer Christian?----or being a sinner, for that matter? It's your attitude and allegiance to God that's important. Am I trying to do good for my fellow man? I try and I pray to try, but I sure had fun as a teenager.

Am I less of a Christian in God's eyes?

Am I less of a Christian in God's eyes?

the past is the past,

it doesn't matter how you start, it's the finish that counts.

I've never heard of the 80 yard dash...have you?

Deference.
Ok, you have your dot com dictionary and I have mine....Its in book form, you know those things with paper pages that have words printed upon them and are bound with a hard cover? Its titled: Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary. Under the entry for the word Dogma, guess which definition is in the number one, letter A position? Why it says right here that Dogma, first and foremost is: "something held as an established opinion".
Now that we have established that your Dogma won't hunt, lets get back to the facts (even though facts get in the way of a good argument).
I have no interest in opinion as to the word of God. I do have an interest in accuracy, which is why I refer to the Greek and Hebrew for confirmation of things in the Bible, written in english. Now as to fornication being a sin (transgression of divine law), Class, lets open our Bibles to 1st Corinthians, Chapter 6 , verse 18, where we read thus:"Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body". Now back up a bit to verse 9; "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not decieved: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind".
The word "fornication" is used 36 times throughout the Bible. "Fornications", 3 times. "Fornicator",2 times. "Fornicators" 3 times.
Yup, people be fornicatin all over the Bible. I do agree with your assessment of so called "religious leaders", televangelists and such who, after an hour of their pacing and ranting and raving, one hasn't the slightest idea of what they are talking about. The same can be said for just about every church service I have ever attended ( I no longer am a member of the CHURCH OF THE PATH OF LEAST RESISTANCE). Nor I am a member of any club, cult, society, rite, group,circle, square,triangle or religion..........yes religion. Though I am a Christian, Christianity is not a religion, but is reality. I refuse to lump God the Father and Christ my Lord and Saviour in with any other tin god that there is out in the world that the heathen worship.
Please address your replies to me, Orionsbelt 77........I just feel all gooey inside when you do.......................................

I've got no problem with sex before marriage. These days accidental pregnancy is fairly easily avoidable and women are no longer property, so it doesn't really matter if you have sex before, during, or after marriage. No one involved is going to be shamed. Unwanted pregnancies and STDs can be a problem even for married couples.

Lena - Kalau Anda bisa menulis lagi dalam bahasa indonesia saya bisa menerjemah. Bahasa Inggris Anda agak sulit dingerti.